Written by sinseno on . Posted in
April 27, 2017 at 9:15 am #1599
hello there everybody. I am here just after some recommendations/ advices please, I would appreciate it a lot as I do know that it is pretty much difficult so any information would be advised. as you can see, I am searching for information regarding insulin overdose in a non diabetic person. the whole thing is that I just have had a call from my father’s care home. my father is 83 years old and he is suffering from Alzheimer’s however he is not suffering from diabetes. of course, in my father’s care home there are other patients who are diabetics and so… I was called yesterday and been told that my dad has been injected with another patient’s insulin accidentally. that person who has called me did knew that it has been 17 units, however they were not very clear whether was that fast acting or background insulin.
now, it is obvious that paramedics are with him and he is already being taken to the hospital, that’s the normal and obvious thing that they must do. but… I just can’t sit and wait. I mean, I am not here for getting answers on how to save my father as there are doctors doing so, however I just can’t sit and wait for the call telling me how’s he… I am now really wondering what the likely outcomes are, if there is anybody who might know? I want to know what I can expect? I am not an expert but I do think that I pretty well understand the potential outcome of a novorapid overdose like that, however I am being much less sure of how serious/ non serious it is if my father was given Lantus. is here someone who can help me regarding this? please someone…April 27, 2017 at 9:40 am #1600
well, from as much as I can think of it, the hospital is just going to put him on a glucose drip. or at least that’s what I would imagine them to do. generally, the insulin can be dangerous for everybody, it doesn’t matter if it’s a diabetic person or not. anything what’s less and anything that’s in excess is a bad thing, regardless who’s having it… whatever the case, now, the most important thing is that this mistake has been spotted (and I guess that it was spotted immediately) which means that your father is going to get the care that he needs to get. I guess that as soon as they have been said this, the paramedics may also have been able to give him an immediate treatment in order to counteract the insulin. whatever the case, as I said, the most important thing is that they noticed it as it would have been much worse if they wouldn’t notice that. so that’s a positive thing. I send you my best wishes and I really hope that your father is going to stabilize as soon as possible. good luck!April 27, 2017 at 10:08 am #1601
thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate it a lot. yeah, I do understand and I know that the insulin overdose is always a dangerous thing, this is why I am here I wanted to find out some more answers. but that’s not to help my father as I am now feeling helpless and I do know that there’s, unfortunately, nothing that I can do… that is why I can guess that I’m only trying to manage my expectations I am thinking… thanks again for your answer.April 27, 2017 at 10:27 am #1602
you’ve just got to remember that your father’s metabolism is going to be able to compensate to at least some extent and that’s because he is not a diabetic person. also, he is going to have stored glucose that his own hormones are going to release in response. just in case it was a slow acting insulin then it is quite obvious that it is going to be a slower drop and this means that it would be easier to deal with, however I just can imagine that the paramedics have helped him before he has been transferred to, hospital, pretty much as they would do if a person who is having diabetes had taken too much of insulin by mistake. I mean, I can’t be sure here either, of course, but I am thinking that they must be prepared for such kind of situations so there must be people specialized in helping in such kind of situations.
I do understand that you want to find out what you can expect and how he might feel from that, however I really do not think that anyone here can know the answer as to how things are going to progress and that is due to the fact that it greatly depends on the individual as well as on the insulin that has been given, however getting quick, treatment as it does sounds that he did, that must be a really big thing in his favor so I do think that he must be alright and that there shouldn’t be anything that you must be worried about. I mean… of course, there are always risks, however I just think that odds are in your father’s favor. good luckApril 27, 2017 at 10:45 am #1603MarkuSParticipant
oh my god.. what a sad news, I am so sorry for you and your father about that… I am just glad that he is getting the care that he needs now and I hope that he’s gonna be fine. I honestly wish you and your father all the very best and hoping he would feel fine soon.April 27, 2017 at 4:13 pm #1604StoneMadeParticipant
well.. there’s an annoying problem to put it mildly… now… approximately 25% or so of care home residents are having diabetes of whom only half are known that they do have, having that said, there is an approximately 12% or so chances that your father does have diabetes but it is still not known by anybody. so, just in case your father is a little bit tubby and he is having an undiagnosed T2DM then I’m pretty sure that there might not be too much of a problem at all!
however, on the other hand, if he is a skinny man and he is not a diabetic person, then his glucose levels could drop significantly much. if that’s so then as it has been already mentioned above by some other member, the hospital most likely would put your father on a glucose drip and then they would watch the glucose levels very carefully and their actions depends on the glucose levels from that moment on.
now, the scope for problems lies in the duration of the effect of the lantus.. folk would say a 24 hour duration of effect, however it can last for a longer, example the 24 hours it is the therapeutic effect in standard dosages, however a big (and I am talking about a much bigger than 17 units) this can make folk being hypo for days, like for example 5 days.
and so, if your father has been given a quick acting insulin then he would need a fair bit of CHO in order to avoid the hypos, however he should be sorted by the next 24 hours. hwoever if Lantus, he would not need such a rapid rate of the ingestion of CHO, however it could go on for a longer and one would want your father to be fine off any glucose drip for 24 hours. but if the renal function of your father is quite poor and then routine measures of the renal function in a frail older person underestimate the proble, then the insulin is going to hang around for a little bit longer.
whatever the case, safeguarding concerns are going to be raised (appropriately) and the investigations that your father would be put on are going to keep your dad in that hospital a few more days. but that’s just to make sure that when your father would get out from the hospital, he’s gonna be 100% safe. I really hope this would help at least a bit and I hope much more that your father would be alright. all the best to you.April 27, 2017 at 4:30 pm #1605
thank you very and very much, it really makes a lot of sense and it is helpful, thanks for everything 🙂April 27, 2017 at 5:01 pm #1606AlmosinessParticipant
hey there OP, have you already heard how your father is doing now? I mean, have you got any other call? if yes please update it here.
well, I would imagine that since you said your dad is having Alzheimers then there are going to be some kind of additional factors or something like that that would allow for (disruption of routine, change of scene, the completely unfamiliar environment and so on and so forth), but I really hope very much that he is going to be back in familiar surroundings as soon as it is possible, in a few days at the longest….April 27, 2017 at 5:32 pm #1607AmyGodnessParticipant
sinseno… oh my god… that’s all rather shocking and I am just so sorry that you dad had to go through all of that. but I wanted to ask you… have you found out how the error has been discovered? I mean, how they realized that they’ve made that mistake? what I try to say is that in the time that I really do accept the thing that in any action mistakes indeed can happen, it would really seem that there is something that has gone wrong in that situation. maybe I am wrong, and I really hope that I am wrong… however you just never know…
if I would be in your shoes then I would be writing to that care home where this happened to your dad and I would be expressing my deep shock and disappointment about what has happened there and I would definitely ask them to fully investigate it all, to find out and say what has happened for sure. in addition to that, of course, I would be asking them firmly what kind of steps they are currently taking, as well as including any changes at all to the procedures that are going to ensure that this is not going to ever happen again, to your father, as well as to anybody else out there.
that it is not about asking for some names or for looking for somebody to blame, to get me correctly, as I do know that a lot of people would firstly think to blame someone or stuff like that. again, I would not be searching for names and for someone to blame because of this. it is all only about ensuring that your father is going to be safe and that you can be fully confident and calm that he is being cared for appropriately and you are not going to get such a call anymore. doing nothing might not make them anything else, might not make them change anything, but such situations does requires changes so your dad would be all safe. I wish you good luck and hopefully such situations wouldn’t ever happen to your father ever again… as well as to anybody’s fathers.April 27, 2017 at 6:13 pm #1608
well… I have just discussed to the care home again and they told me that they have checked with the hospital where my father has been taken to. well, they have told me that my dad is, thankfully, doing fine now and they said that bg it is stable at the moment. they also said that they have already booked his transport back to the care home for 3 pm today because they said that there is no more need for him to stay at the hospital. to be honest, I am very glad about this and that’s because with his Alzheimer’s, some big disruptions to routine are being massively stressful for him… unfortunately, so going back is fine, at least I do think that it is better for him.
I am now leaving him alone today in order to settle back into his room at the care home, as he is going to be completely exhausted, I do know this, and I also know he’s gonna be very stressed out as it is, and I am going to see him tomorrow morning only which I do hope that he’s gonna be much better until then.
whatever the case, I did have already made my task for today and I am talking about the letter written to the care home. thanks for the recommendation as I do appreciate it but I would have written it even without a recommendation of doing so… I am going to make sure that my letter is going to be delivered and read as I am going to hand deliver it myself tomorrow when I would go in. I also do understand what you meant by saying that you would not go for names or for someone to be blamed because of this. I do think exactly the same way as I have no interest in finding out names and blaming anyone. generally, I can say that the carers at my dad’s home are just some very and very amazing people. I did discussed with them and I’ve seen how they are thinking/ acting. if they wouldn’t be so amazing I wouldn’t even let them take care of my father. and I also do know that these people are just doing such a hard, very hard job… and to be honest, I am absolutely having no interest at all in seeing heads roll or anything in this matter. I really want to make it all peaceful, I don’t want someone to have to suffer because of this, but I also do not want to leave it like that because my father suffers. so I’m still gonna give them the letter as this is a safeguarding issue for my dad as well as all other residents there and so they MUST take it very seriously and to act accordingly. we just can’t leave it like that. and I must say that I strongly suspect on the fact that this has happened due to the fact that, as usual, those people working there are under staffed and are over worked. again, I do not blame them. I’ve seen how they are working, what a hard and oftentimes a stressful job they are doing. but that’s why they should not be over worked. I already made sure that I mentioned this in my letter. I’ve seen that the managers are working their 9 – 5 and then are just taking home their nice salaries and then they are leaving those poor carers to deal with everything in there… it is obvious that ultimately mistakes would happen. that’s why I wrote that letter, so this would be changes and such mistakes not to happen!April 29, 2017 at 12:57 am #1609
sinseno. I am just so so glad that your dad is alright and everything is generally fine. glad it has ended. what an terrible worry for you, I’m sorry you had to get through it. I imagine that was one of the hardest moments for you… hope you’re never live them again. but for that, yes, definitely you must write a letter to them and let them know everything. and yeah, I definitely do agree with the fact that it is not about apportioning blame, people who are doing a hard job and are overworking, of course, can make mistakes. however, it is about having procedures that are going to surely prevent such kind of things to happen once again. hope both you and your dad would be safe.April 29, 2017 at 1:36 am #1610AmyGodnessParticipant
sinseno hello again. yes, I do think that there is no need to blame anyone and that’s because blame is very rarely solving a problem at all (but oftentimes it gives only more problems) and to be fair the person who has done this is much more likely so shocked about all of this and that they made such a mistake that there is no need for you to go in there and say anything… I have a feeling that they themselves are going to be super and hyper vigilant in the future, and especially with your dad. plus to that. I am damn sure that the workers wouldn’t want to hurt anybody and since the worker who has done that, I can imagine that they also have had a really sleepless night hoping that your dad would be alright. those people who are doing such kind of jobs are very rarely doing it for all the limelight and for all of those extremely enormous salaries they have (well, I guess you already did but please, you must understand this sentence I am being ironic.)
as you already mentioned it, it is about your father as well as the other residents out there in the care home being properly cared for and also staying safe at a time in their lives when they are being so vulnerable so extra care must be taken. anyway, in the end, the most important thing is that your dad is doing fine now and I’m very glad that he does. I am also happy for him that he can get back to his more familiar surrounding very quickly, as you said, this is very important for him and his conditions. I imagine that it must be such a relief when you’ve got that phone call saying that your father is ok and he would be released from the hospital.April 29, 2017 at 2:45 am #1612StoneMadeParticipant
I must say that I completely do agree with above on care home staff. they are being very stretched because of the difficulty recruiting. plus to that, I also know that there are some frequent investigations with homes in special measures either, there are sometimes when for good reason, but it also there are sometimes when not. and plus to that, diabetes education it is generally very difficult, I do know it very well, even though the diabetes specialists can do training, there are still not enough staff in order to allow folk off to do the training as well as turnover of staff it is just so high (what I try to say is that working in a supermarket pays more and it is having extra benefits) than trained staff here and it would be no wonder if those people may very well soon leave. and what are the risk in a super market and what are the risk when playing with people lives? why you must be trained here? why you spend your time and nerves? these are just a few points that makes me say: kudos to such people who are resisting and who are still working this way. they have all my respect.
I must say that I have been highly impressed by staff in homes (I personally would never be patronizing it) however just very and very stretched. and also, the residents are much much more dependent than 15 years ago or so, and plus to that the state funding for placements have not really risen with the costs of care… all of this does sums up in the end… anyway… seems I went off topic, sorry for that. I really hope that your father is doing alright and nothing similar would ever happen. wish you and your dad best wishes!
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